tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post7205689933711393701..comments2023-09-09T11:33:47.753-04:00Comments on Catherine et les fées: Relaxed homeschooling: a discussion with Donna SimmonsCatherinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17513911177615259519noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-49700582051514733492011-12-14T03:09:02.750-05:002011-12-14T03:09:02.750-05:00Thanks Catherine for sharing Donna with us. I rea...Thanks Catherine for sharing Donna with us. I really enjoyed reading through everyone's comments.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10468496433297510687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-39361556790295160382011-10-22T15:38:22.221-04:002011-10-22T15:38:22.221-04:00Donna, thank you so so so very much!
IsabelleDonna, thank you so so so very much!<br />IsabelleI.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01005680462964437870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-53029871072584902032011-10-22T12:12:24.055-04:002011-10-22T12:12:24.055-04:00I think we can a "strong" parent, calm, ...I think we can a "strong" parent, calm, inspiring, posed and relaxing for the soul of children and that, whatever the choice we make : homeschooling relaxed, unschooling or even other… <br />But perhaps its worse to a child to be in unschooling with a parent not also stable and a little be "fuzzy" that to be in the same situation in homeshooling because in homeschooling he is framed and it can be structured (because more secure). So, perhaps unschooling need more ideal conditions.<br />And, so, I think that the most important is to work of ourself. And it's true that anthroposophy can really help us ! In waiting, we have to make the choice that reinforces us, and that we feel our children seems the most fulfilled. Then, perhaps we will change this choice (or not), but no regrets to have : we was what we was, and this allowed us to put us on the way. And I think it is not also rich for us, but so educate and train for the child !<br /><br />(I don't know it my english is understandable…)<br /><br />Thanks you for your post, Carrie, it's really inspiring…Carinehttp://apetitspasdelutins.unblog.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-62969949299852702012011-10-22T11:56:47.600-04:002011-10-22T11:56:47.600-04:00Hi Isabelle,
Your questions are wonderful....but ...Hi Isabelle,<br /><br />Your questions are wonderful....but I think they are really questions for you to meditate on within the context of your spiritual path.<br /><br />I would however say this: every human being comes to earth with a Plan made in the spiritual worlds....but how that plan unfolds, what is might look like, how it might come to deviate from what was originally envisioned....those things have to do with karma and the experiences that meet a person as they grow and develop. And part of that also has to do with free choice, the choices each adult makes during the course of his or her life. <br /><br />This is obviously pretty complicated stuff and I find that the study of anthropsophy helps me understand and work with such deep, deep qustions. I am also a member of the Christian Community, the church founded on the work of Rudolf Steiner. http://www.thechristiancommunity.org/ I find that my deep questions find form, if not answers, through my involvement with such initiatives.<br /><br />Every human being is born to parents - thus the parents are part of the Plan. How this unfolds in each human relationship - well, that's way more than I can grasp. But I can say that since children come as children, with their different stages of consciousness, with their need to be children, that the parents (and other adults) are the ones who have to take the decisions, and create the kind of lifestyle, to the best of their abilities, for each child's destiny (or Plan) to unfold. It is best if those adults strive to understand questions of human destiny so that they can at least anticipate what the Plan might be for each child. But unless they are clairvoyant, it is unlikely that they will know each child's Plan (it is hard enough for each person to get to grips with his or her own Plan let alone those of others - at least for most people!).<br /><br />So...everyone just has to do their best. Exoterically, they can strive to learn about child development and education and sensible ways of parenting. Esoterically, they can study questions of spiritual unfoldment.<br /><br />And that's about all I can touch on with this wonderful question.<br /><br />Donna <br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnahttp://www.christopherushomeschool.org/home.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-55101373610822623332011-10-22T09:46:00.251-04:002011-10-22T09:46:00.251-04:00Wow! What an amazing discussion we are having here...Wow! What an amazing discussion we are having here! This is so rich. Carrie, thank you so very much for your post. It helps me see how I only really just scratched the surface of the subtelties of homeschooling... There really is a lot of knowing our children and my mistake was to put them all in the same basket because they are doing the same grade! Big mistake. You are so right on about Aïsha. And I can clearly see that it is her relationship to authority, and that by gently pushing her, I am doing her a great service. Thank you all so much for your amazing contributions! We still have Donna here today (Saturday) and then we will close the comments tonight! Please invite Donna on your blog for more discussions!Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17513911177615259519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-67784389933570180702011-10-22T05:00:29.299-04:002011-10-22T05:00:29.299-04:00Thanks Donna!
Now i have read it:-)
(btw, i live i...Thanks Donna!<br />Now i have read it:-)<br />(btw, i live in Holland maybe 20yards from Corrie Ten Boom's house- how funny is this coincidence.)<br />So am i correct in understanding that only part of the knowledge the adult possesses comes from general knowledge about child development ?I mean, notions like the temperaments, or the 9 yo change etc- and boy did these notions help me understand that my high energy boy does not require exterior, chemical fixing, but a more subtle recentering...i loved your metaphor of ironing oneself out:-)<br />But i do get the feeling that there is more, like a very personal, maybe spiritual vision, or plan, that mom has for this specific child. Do children come with a plan for themselves? And what does it mean in terms of the level of guidance/choice autonomy we can/should leave them?<br /><br />I get the feeling that i KNOW my son's soul and needs at a deep level. But i also get the feeling that he has a plan of his own?<br /><br />Thank you Donna and Catherine, again!I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01005680462964437870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-73315660370678384142011-10-22T00:18:26.554-04:002011-10-22T00:18:26.554-04:00Hi Donna,
I am sending you a big
(((( hug...Hi Donna,<br />I am sending you a big <br /> (((( hug ))))! <br /><br />Thank you so much for your in depth and lovely response regarding my "wild" boys. I realize that I have a lot of work ahead of me, but that is okay. I am going to start implementing as many of your suggestions as I can. I have to give you a great example that occurred today. Oldest Boy was spinning out of control and really annoying Younger Boy who in turn started taking his frustrations out on Lil Sis. I was patient to a point and then was starting to loose my cool. I was almost about to send them outside to play (in the past I have done that, thinking Oldest Boy needed to run off some energy...it never really works). I stopped myself and said, hey, I need you to come over here and help me clean out this yucky refrigerator. We worked together, but do you know that he happily and enthusiastically wiped down the entire frig? It was a huge help to me (I was getting ready to do it myself) and all of a sudden the chaos amongst all of the kiddos dissipated. <br /><br />Thank you, Donna! (And thank you Catherine for this incredible thread!) Oh, and yes I do have the early years book. Unfortunately its on my iPad and I am having technical difficulties at the moment and cannot access it. Hope to resolve that very soon.<br /><br />Happy Friday!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-52564152529328115762011-10-21T23:10:35.952-04:002011-10-21T23:10:35.952-04:00(part 2)
But again, there is no way to state how o...(part 2)<br />But again, there is no way to state how one can make that call - and of course we all make mistakes on it and call it wrong. That's ok. We learn for the next time.<br /><br />A good call I made was with my younger son. He could not for the world deal with form drawing when he was 7, 8 or 9 years old. Form drawing is incredibly important. But I could see that he was unable to reap its benefits for a number of reasons. He had plenty of time to play outside, he cooked and cleaned with me, he painted and drew and modelled and baked and did handwork - so he did have plenty of opportunities to receive the kind of balancing that is so much a part of form drawing. It was a gap, but I decided, on balance, that it was ok.<br /><br />When he was 12 we started with form drawing. It was an amazing experience. He remembered his struggles from when he was younger and because of his age, was able to remove himself somewhat from the process and observe himself. He could see how now he could grasp the forms. Because of his age, I could also now talk with him a bit about why form drawing is so important and why we do it - he could more or less understand that. It was a wonderful experience for both of us.<br /><br />Moral of the story? Understand child development and how its demands are reflected in the Waldorf curriculum and then know your child so you can judge how best to work with the curriculum. And know yourself so that your own "stuff" does not get in the way! And lastly - it's never to late to take action or correct a lapse.<br /><br />And back to Sarah, thank you for mentioning how counter to society's pressures it is to be relaxed about anything! To be a relaxed homeschooler is a revolutionary act! Bring it on!<br /><br />Hope it's ok that I combined you two....I want to get at least briefly to everyone remaining as tomorrow is our last day....<br /><br />Donna<br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnahttp://www.christopherushomeschool.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-2466764985943120482011-10-21T23:10:08.572-04:002011-10-21T23:10:08.572-04:00Hi Sarah,
I want to thank you for your thoughtful...Hi Sarah,<br /><br />I want to thank you for your thoughtful contribution - what you say about how you work with your children, taking little breaks and so on is wonderful and really important - we must always remember that homeschooling is VERY intense. It is essentially a one-on-one tutorial and nothing at all like being in a classroom of 25 children. It may seem like a paradox, but teaching 25 is actually much easier for an adult and much easier in many ways for a child!. There is more room to breath. One is able to teach via another child when child A is having trouble. One works with the group and the children get to see the struggles and accomplishments of the other children. They can imitate as well. None of this is so at home - even if one has a very large family, because of the different ages and the realities of family dynamics, it is not the same. Though at least one can pair children off and get the older ones working with the younger ones!<br /><br />I am running out of steam and getting tired but I did want to high light what you say, Sarah about the joy on their faces after they have had to do something - this can easily be forgotten when one is torturing oneself whether one is "imposing lessons" on a child. No one ever said learning is easy or painless - much of it is not. But....the joy that a child has once he's faced down his walls of resistance (and he needs a parent's help with this for many many years) is priceless. There is nothing that makes homeschooling more worthwhile than witnessing the deep satisfaction a child can experience when he has mastered or overcome something. If we always back down when a child protests about lessons, we never give him the opportunity to have this experience.<br /><br />Having said that....there are definitely times when one wants to back off - Cathy expresses this eloquently and others have brought this up. It is critical that one recognize that there are times when one needs to acknowledge that the struggle a child is facing is too much and that the joy of accomplishment won't follow, but the pain of failure will (not that it isn't ok for a child to occasionally experience failure). There is no formula for this - only the parent-teacher can judge when the time is right and where the balance lies. And I think, Cathy, that I am going to include your questions here because they fit. Yes - absolutely - there are definitely things in the curriculum you must skip. Every Waldorf teacher certainly does - either because he runs out of time or because he took his class in a somewhat different direction based on their needs or circumstances. This is critical to remember.<br />(end of part 1)Donnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-9234221251099942472011-10-21T22:27:59.503-04:002011-10-21T22:27:59.503-04:00Part Two
3. I have a little running list on my b...Part Two<br /><br />3. I have a little running list on my board that includes the work for the day. Even if the child cannot read it herself, it helps me look at what we need to do, even if we don’t get to it that day and I carry it over. I also write a little strip going down the side of my board regarding things “outside” of the main lesson – like on Mondays we have a Nature Story, on Wednesdays we do German and we have handwork in the afternoon. It helps me not to just peter out and end at the Main Lesson and for a child over the nine year change, I think it helps to just have it there, almost neutral, like the board says, the sun rises, this is our work today..<br />4. It helps me to have whole days to go to the forest, the beach, to build or to cook. Having a whole day and not just an afternoon lets me relax and feel like these experiences are just as an important part of our homeschooling experience as a Main Lesson Book…and probably more. As Donna always says, homeschooling is first and foremost about family!<br />5. And by that token,I try to relax and not fall into the trap of always material presentation, drawing, summarizing. There is a place for that, but also a place for all the other wonderful things in Waldorf Education. I try to approach things with love and humor! Homeschooling is fun!<br /><br />I think homeschooling is ultimately about influencing development of the holistic human being, and using the curriculum to meet developmental needs. It is also about learning to work as a team within the family, to start to take responsibility for oneself and one’s actions, slowly and certainly not as an individual at first…Catherine, I think you mentioned earlier something about the nine year change and perhaps things at that point improve. I don’t think it makes the pushing against the form easier, in fact, I think it is harder because they realize they are separate, that authority can be pushed against, and I think in girls especially they may already form conceptions of being “good” at something or not . They also work in that sympathy-antipathy realm, what they like and what they don’t like and sometimes need a lot of encouraging, and just being a wall whilst they complain about fair, unfair, etc. With a small child, yes ,even a small child of 10 or whatever, they are still not a rational adult who comes to sit down like an adult at the table and “learn”…..and there are things, that as adults, I believe we can authentically guide children…..<br /><br />So, I do think you have to carry within your heart that what you are doing is the right thing. Sometimes you do not see how things that are in the curriculum affect the child until much later. I like to use the example of when my oldest was in third grade and we did the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden in September. She was very quiet about it all, but I came out one morning in January to see her drawing a huge chalkboard drawing of Adam and Eve and all the animals. Sometimes we just plant the seeds, and the wonderful thing in Waldorf Education is how each grade really builds upon each other. The flame of the candle in Kindergarten can become the flame we observe and draw later in the upper grades for science. It is so beautifully all there…<br /><br />Many blessings, thank you for this conversation.<br />CarrieCarriehttp://www.theparentingpassageway.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-44536130563306365802011-10-21T22:27:17.755-04:002011-10-21T22:27:17.755-04:00Hi Donna, Catherine, and all,
I wanted to chime i...Hi Donna, Catherine, and all,<br />I wanted to chime in earlier but have been taking care of a house full of sick children and nursing some sort of subluxed joint in a finger myself, so I have been slow! Such an illuminating and thought-provoking discussion you all have had.<br /><br />I was thinking about relaxed homeschooling in relation to my own children, and I thought of a few things that help me navigate the waters of Waldorf Education at home in a way I consider just nurturing....<br />1. For me, to plan is important, but to not be too wedded to the plan is essential. I have to not be afraid to move things around, to throw things out, to move things in relation to continual observation of the child. I was thinking of what you wrote, Catherine, about Aisha refusing to do her work, and I guess as her teacher I would be observing and perhaps changing based on my observation, but perhaps not ! You know things like: how is her vision? What is her pencil grip like? Is the noise level too high and she can’t focus? Is she hungry? Is she a complete perfectionist and needs to draw on separate sheets of paper because a Main Lesson book is daunting? Has she been writing away all week and truly does need the work lessened or does she really need to persist – in other words, is it now really not about drawing a picture, but about her relationship to authority, her need to finish something, her need to do something even if it is not what she would choose? In other words, will doing this help her be the healthy adult I intend for her to grow up and become? Where is the place of this refusal not only in school, but in the family? How does she make restitution for this? It is not all about her, it is also about the impact she has on her sisters when she does this as well…These are the sorts of things I ponder when things get off track in my own homeschooling experience. Some mothers I have talked to with smaller children talk about spending a lot of time in their homeschooling on “maintenance” , ie, managing behavior, but I truly think that is an essential part of homeschooling, and it really is not just managing, but using those opportunities to see where these children need strengthening, need help, need guidance to meet where they are developmentally and uplift them so their capacities can unfold. <br /><br />2. So I think my idea of control is not based upon checking off all the boxes or such (more about that in number two), but I think it is about being the teacher and being able to be flexible in relation to what I see the child needs in order to learn, to accomplish our goals. I can change on a dime, but I won’t change on a whim, if that makes any sense at all. I try to continually discern the essential for that child based upon what I see, and what I think will help them most to become a healthy adult. What do they need to hear, to experience, to do? What responsibility do they need to take? So much of this is in the moment of teaching.Carriehttp://www.theparentingpassageway.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-63741861973502710632011-10-21T21:06:40.994-04:002011-10-21T21:06:40.994-04:00This has been a great read, of course as homeschoo...This has been a great read, of course as homeschoolers we are always striving for the balance. I think at the beginning of my "waldorf homeschool" journey, everything being new & unknown for me, I was more uptight about following the rules, doing things perfectly...I also see at that point in my life I was uptight and controlling of everything, and just being a mother was so new. Now that I can see the big picture of this education (beauty, nurturing the senses, creativity, age appropriateness) I feel free to take what we need when we need...I feel the same way with cooking & knitting now too, a couple of years of following recipes or patterns & now free to wing it and have fun with it, see what happens, but with a basic knowledge of the art. We follow Donna's Gr 1 curriculum for our 7 year old, but the days are flexible within the home- if the boy spends 2 weeks working on his underground tunnel project I won't disturb him because it is the scheduled circle time or recorder time, perhaps we will go and sing songs & play the recorder songs outside near him while he digs. Or if it is the day to bake and he is outside digging then I bake with my 5 year old and we bring snacks out to the tunnel project. But we have thus far easily found the time to stick with the approx 30 mins for Main Lesson each day, sometime in the morning. Our family rhythm each day is always on (meal times, bedtimes, etc). <br />Thank you Catherine & Donna & everyone for their thought provoking words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-44976879997855311622011-10-21T20:47:12.316-04:002011-10-21T20:47:12.316-04:00Dear Catherine, thank you so much for hosting this...Dear Catherine, thank you so much for hosting this discussion, which I am very much enjoying, and learning a great deal from. And thank you to everyone who is participating.<br /><br />Donna, I want to take this opportunity to thank you so much for all the work you have put into producing your curriculum, which has been such a wonderful resource for me. I find your voice to be clear and true and wonderfully supportive. Homeschooling can be a lonely business at times, and I have felt as if I have had you take me by the hand and gently guide my way. So as it is unlikely we will ever meet (I am in New Zealand), I send you a heartfelt cyber-hug.<br /><br />For me, the words “relaxed homeschooling” bring up a few different things. One is, as others have pointed out, how relaxed I am as mother and teacher, which I think comes from how confident I feel in what I am trying to do. When I have doubts I cannot feel confident, I am not clear, I don’t trust either myself or my child. I am scattered, I am not present. I think this has more to do with parenting choices and how well aligned my beliefs and values are with what I am doing/how I am behaving. How comfortable do I feel with the way I am handling this situation?<br /><br />I know that one sure way for my confidence to dip and for me to start questioning what I’m doing, and how, is if my child is resistant, you know, if he doesn’t show great enthusiasm. But then if I am really honest, I can see that this is almost always because I am not bringing great enthusiasm myself, it is as if I am saying, “please like this, I need your approval.”<br /><br />As I write I am thinking, I need to somehow set aside my own needs when I am in this “role” of teacher and mother, but is that authentic??? Or am I working out of my “higher self”, my true self when I do manage to do that? Hmmmm…….<br /><br />Then there is the relaxation that comes from feeling everything is under control, that all is going well. But the reality is that life is messy and I have regular periods of feeling overwhelmed by all the things which need my time and attention and that there are never enough hours in the day to get it all done. I am learning to say no to things which I just don’t have time for, but learning to let go of the guilt is harder….<br /><br />Finally, how relaxed can the homeschooling be? I sometimes wonder what it would be like to just have the story and allow my child to work with it in his own way, not by giving him choices such as, “Would you like to draw, or write, or model, or paint?” etc, but just to leave him to it to digest things in an inner way without my direction or interference. <br /><br />I also wonder about this idea of forcing him to do certain things. I know that, in the beginning, he didn’t enjoy drawing or writing, and I don’t exactly get the enthusiasm I would like now either, but there is less resistance and I realise now that much of that resistance came from the fact that it was really hard for him, and he wasn’t happy with the result. He didn’t have another 6 or 7 year old sitting next to him who also found it hard. He had mummy, who didn’t.<br /><br />I am pondering on the idea of how much of the curriculum is essential. If we cannot do it all either because it is too much, or too hard right now, or not interesting enough (we don’t all love the same things) or I don’t know how to teach it and haven’t got time to learn right now, how much does it matter if we just don’t do that bit? <br /><br />Here is my question: I come from a background in the Person-Centred Approach, based upon the work of the psychologist Carl Rogers. Rogers talks about something called “the core conditions” which I won’t go into details about here, but there is a quality of those core conditions being “necessary and/or sufficient”. So, how do I know which parts of the curriculum each year are necessary, and which parts are sufficient? To what degree can I change things, delay things, drop things with the aim to making homeschooling more relaxed for us all?Cathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-64648296866485346142011-10-21T20:16:23.828-04:002011-10-21T20:16:23.828-04:00Hi Marianne,
I wonder if your question has been t...Hi Marianne,<br /><br />I wonder if your question has been touched on sufficiently - though not really directly addressed, I do think it underlay a number of the comments and questions. I hope you have found this useful - and please - there is no way that you are intruding! I assume you feel that way because your child is tiny and you are not homeschooling - well congratulations to you for starting early and, hopefully, finding a path that leads you where you feel you need to go with your child!<br /><br />In general, I think that though there need to be formal times for school and thus for the mother being the teacher, the point about homeschooling is that it flows with Real Life. So in addition to Cook, Chauffeur, Wardrobe Supervisor, Social Secretary and all the rest of normal parenting duties, there is also Teacher. But of course, all parents teach their children - it's just that when we homeschool we do it more often and it usually needs to be fairly formalized.<br /><br />But what is most important is that one has established the healthy forms in one's family that support teaching - if the children do not listen to the parent, then homeschooling cannot happen. I have seen that very often - the basic discipline questions, the rhythm and forms which support the children and nurture a harmonious atmosphere so that teaching and learning can take place, are missing. And that's no fun for anyone!<br /><br />I have mentioned this several times now, but as I see you have a little one, you especially might be interested in my early years book which we sell on our website. There is a whole section in there dedicated to the mother's role and several women share about how they find - and don't find! -balance in their days.<br /><br />Donna<br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnahttp://www.christopherushomeschool.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-84960388905624645272011-10-21T17:34:03.858-04:002011-10-21T17:34:03.858-04:00"Being real. Being in the moment yet with a l..."Being real. Being in the moment yet with a longer view. Being calm and "in control" but not "controlling" - subtle but important distinction there. It's a nuanced dance and one can so easily get out of step, either stiffening into rigidity or flowing away into chaos. Both extremes are out of step with what a child needs."<br /><br />I'm so agree with this.<br /><br />I like what I do with my son, but I think my son have difficulties with drawing and such graphism. He dislike to be sit in front of a paper. And perhaps it reveal bad memories in me, it's true…<br /><br />Yes, I like to see stars in his eyes when he learn by his way, I think it's so enthusiasting… I love when he have discover to count 2 by 2 and 5 by 5, then 10 by 10 with his abacus. <br /><br />I think he dislike lessons because he thinks "why does I don't know everything, like the older seems know ? why drawing is seems so difficult, even if I finally succeed ?". When he was a litle child, I never could read stories with him because he didn't understood this strange thing : I saw something that he didn't see into the same objet : the book. This difference is uncomfortable for him.<br /><br />(6h15… dear… morning is not our friend, in our family…)Carinehttp://apetitspasdelutins.unblog.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-91942968986743033642011-10-21T14:17:39.205-04:002011-10-21T14:17:39.205-04:00Hi Donna,
Is a clone of your brain available throu...Hi Donna,<br />Is a clone of your brain available through Christopherus? I will need more than 9 lives to remember and read about all of this, guessing that there is probably far more to learn about parenting the Waldorf way... Why did no one tell me about waldorf years and years before????<br /><br />This discussion is the core of what I have been looking for but wasn't sure exactly how and where to ask for it. Catherine and I have been discussing about those topics for more than a year, I believe, and we read books by dozens... <br />I personnaly felt like a wind vane, being unschooler a day and relaxed waldorfy homeschooler every other day, never quite sure exactly what we were!<br />I will certainly take time to summerize averything that has been written here and try and focus on those for a couple of weeks.<br />Thank you ladies for ALL of your input!<br />And Carrie, I reaaly think you could make a fortune with the cloning idea...ninibottinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-86491338084929232622011-10-21T10:31:02.662-04:002011-10-21T10:31:02.662-04:00(part 2)
These are the secrets - which should not ...(part 2)<br />These are the secrets - which should not be secret - of working with a Wild Boy (and I also had a Wild Boy - the elder - and a slower more earth-bound boy whose eventual eruptions were slower but far more impressive than his brother's).<br /><br />So here is where you need to be right in there forming every part of their day so that these two don't drive you and each other nuts - and so you don't lose their sister in the shuffle! You need to work out and plan every minute of the day - really!!! - for these boys. And before you despair, this is not forever. It is perhaps for 6 months,maybe a year until they get this so into themselves that it becomes their own life rhythm - and then they can take a step away from it and you and a step toward their own personal freedom. But in such a situation you cannot leave it to them. They need your authority expressed as forming everything they do - so that they can iron themselves out. It is A LOT of work. But believe me, it is far less exhausting than living with boys who fight all the time (remember the blizzard!!). <br /><br />And there is light at the end of the tunnel - by the time your eldest approaches and passes his 9 year change, he will mature and, because you have provided firm foundations for him (based on your strong authority as parent) he will be able to relax more into himself and be easier to live with. But it is unlikely that he can do this without parental help. he has come to the earth with tis wonderful exuberance - it is your task as his parent to help him never squash that energy, but to learn how to be incontrol of it. It should be his servant, not his master. But as he is a child, without a fully incarnated 'I' (that only comes at age 21) he cannot do this by himself. Only an adult - a parent - can help him in this task.<br /><br />And then you will become relaxed homeschoolers!!<br /><br />By the way, have you got my early years book? I really do think it might be of help as it covers so much of what I spoke of here - and it does not matter if the book is about younger children (which you have 2 of). Those foundational forms need examining and the book could be off help with that.<br /><br />http://www.christopherushomeschool.com/A-Waldorf-Early-Years-Guide-p/chreb001.htm<br /><br /><br />Donna<br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-18890190423244594832011-10-21T10:30:41.963-04:002011-10-21T10:30:41.963-04:00Hi Anonyme from Carrie's,
Glad to have you he...Hi Anonyme from Carrie's,<br /><br />Glad to have you here - and I am glad you are connected to Carrie's blog because there is so much valuable guidance to be found there.<br /><br />And no problem going off topic - happy to have your enthusiasm!<br /><br />6:15am really isn't so bad....there are a lot of children who pop out of bed much earlier and there is nothing one can do to "re-set" their inner clocks. At least you have that lovely time with your girl each morning!<br /><br />Re the boys getting dressed - they are still a bit little to be expected to do that alone - thus the screaming. The night before, you could set out their clothes for them - that should help. It sounds like you really need to get ahold of the early morning part of your day. Set the table the night before but make sure your eldest energy-boy has definite things he needs to help you with first thing. Do not let him cycle off into a volcano. He must come to the kitchen (for instance) and mix or stir something - do something active (see my Joyful Movement for ideas) which isn't play but is work - work that is needed for the family to then be able to have breakfast. Think it through - leave things undone so that they are there for him to do. He might still be in his jammies for all of this - then the younger boy has some time to come into himself without his brother's chaos and teasing. Then maybe oldest boy can go get dressed while younger boy comes to sit on the couch and maybe quietly look at books. Sure, as he passes by his brother, eldest will probably make a crack or poke at him or something - try to not let it get you - that's part of being a typical boy.<br /><br />Now eldest boy is dressed - and he still needs you to direct what he does. He puts the food on the table or waters the plants or...I don't know - you have to thinkthrough tasks and order them in such a way that he can do them. gain, this ios NOT busy work - it's real work that needs doing and serves the double purpose of being of service to the family whilst also helping your wild boy (wgho sounds very very normal!!) come into himself in a social, not anti social way. By the time the 4 of you sit down to eat, he should be centered enough that you have a chance to keep the rest of the day on track.<br /><br />So many people in our society think that out-of-themselves children either need fixing (think Ritalin and so on) or need to "run off steam". I won't even bother to say what I think of the first option. As for the second option, for many, many children this only makes it worse. Running around formlessly spirals the child out of himself (and it is usually though not always a boy thing) and exacerbates the situation, with the poor child left totally unable to come into himself. What is needed here is RHYTHMIC form. Work such as grinding flour, polishing silver, shining shoes. Or the rhythm lies in repetition - that every day he performs these tasks for the family. Later, during Circle Time, it is the repetition, the strongly rhythmic rhymes and gestures that bring him to earth whilst meeting his need for activity. <br /><br />(end of part 1)Donnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-40375822703934998222011-10-21T10:29:23.974-04:002011-10-21T10:29:23.974-04:00Hi Isabelle,
Have you read the article I just pos...Hi Isabelle,<br /><br />Have you read the article I just posted on my blog yesterday? It might be helpful for you to read it in the light of your question on authority because the issue of respecting a child and understanding human development are part of the answer. I will come back to you directly, but I thought it could be helpful for you to read this first:<br /><br />http://christopherushomeschool.typepad.com/blog/2011/10/respecting-the-child.html<br /><br />DonnaDonnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-24286868804563410552011-10-21T10:28:59.609-04:002011-10-21T10:28:59.609-04:00Hi Carine,
Yes, I was also struck by Catherine...Hi Carine,<br /><br />Yes, I was also struck by Catherine's words where she said she would "pause and pray." If we can only remember to stop, especially when we are in the midst of challenges with our children - to stop and pause, take a deep breath....and either right then or later, in solitude, to ask for guidance. How humbling but also empowering to remember we are not alone in this. And I realized that in my post to Catherine I said that she was alone in her inner struggle - this is of course only insofar as help from other human beings is concerned. The spiritual worlds are always available for help. Even just remembering that can assist.us in those dark moments.<br /><br />I like what you say, Carine, about being an authority as the one who inspires and nourishes. That is definitely part of it. And Isabelle, if you are reading this, I will get to your question about authority, but right now let me say that it can help to think about authority in terms of authenticity. Being real. Being in the moment yet with a longer view. Being calm and "in control" but not "controlling" - subtle but important distinction there. It's a nuanced dance and one can so easily get out of step, either stiffening into rigidity or flowing away into chaos. Both extremes are out of step with what a child needs.<br /><br />And - hope everyone bears with me with my wild extended metaphors here - and thanks, Sarah - glad you appreciate them LOL! - but the point is that the tempo of the dance needs to change as the situation changes, as the child grows, as the relationship between one and one's child evolves.Here we can see how important rhythm is - rhythm as the animating and metamorphosing element which ensures that things never stagnate. And so we breath in and out, in and out, now faster, now slower, as we create the forms which inspire and nourish our children.<br /><br />It is good that your son wants to please you, Carine - but I am concerned when you say his heart is not in it. Why might that be? Why should anything in the world be boring to such a young child? Are you excited about your work together? Have you found ways to enliven what you do not so that it is entertaining in a trivial way, but engaging? Can you perhaps describe a bit more of what happens and what you think might be missing?<br /><br />Ah...I just read further in what you wrote - you too are concerned about imposing learning. Hmmm...well, I bet my bottom dollar that your boy is picking up on that....and that makes him less than enthusiastic....and that makes you feel like you really are doing the wrong thing....and so it goes.<br /><br />Of course he likes to play and do his own thing best - but he "should" ( I know - gotta be careful with that word) love his lessons because it is the birthright of all human beings to want to learn! It's how we parent/teachers bring those lessons - when, why, how etc - that is the trick. And of course there are still going to be times when the child would rather play - and there will be times (especially with a first grader) that we allow that. But the lessons should be so full of life that a child could actually seek them out in preference to play because they speak to something deep within. That is what we are aiming for.<br /><br />Donna<br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-66116167221363510482011-10-21T08:42:28.949-04:002011-10-21T08:42:28.949-04:00There is so much food for thought here - thanks Do...There is so much food for thought here - thanks Donna and Catherine! I will have to come back and re-read all the comments, but what really spoke to me are Donna's remarks about "being in control".Francescahttp://www.fuoriborgo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-10255781871412014892011-10-21T08:40:37.446-04:002011-10-21T08:40:37.446-04:00There is so much food for thought here - thanks Do...There is so much food for thought here - thanks Donna and Catherine! I will have to come back and re-read all the comments, but what really spoke to me are Donna's remarks about "being in control".Francescahttp://www.fuoriborgo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-16558404546765335112011-10-21T08:13:48.880-04:002011-10-21T08:13:48.880-04:00Hi Kim,
Well, they are and they aren't at dif...Hi Kim,<br /><br />Well, they are and they aren't at different stages. Of course there is a huge difference between being 6 and being 1 but they are all still at least in that first birth through age 7 sage. All three thrive on what is True, what is Good and what is Beautiful.<br /><br />And so what you can try to do is live into how those Qualities can manifest in your home, in what you do with your children, in how you (and your partner if you have one) live and are. Through really meditating on those Qualities and their importance, then the everyday activities, the content of your days, will become evident because you have understood what the form needs to be.<br /><br />And how you breathe between those forms - well that's your rhythm. <br /><br />OK - so that might sound a little obscure, even esoteric. What I mean by this, as with much that I have said here on this thread, is that the single most important ting for the homeschooling parent to do is to understand the stage of development of her children and - AND - to work on her own personal development so that the channels, as it were, for the expression of her understanding are clear. And then she can act.<br /><br />You have identified the most important elements - sleeping, eating and having a calm and peaceful homelife. Those are what is truly important - not how many paintings you paint or how much bread you bake. But once you have those basics down, then you can focus on HOW your peaceful day unfolds. Well, on Mondays (for instance) we bake so that we have bread for the week. And on Tuesday we clean the house. By Wednesday we are out of clean clothes so that is when we really focus on the laundry....and so on. And these are all activities that are absolutely fundamental to everything that is important for little tiny children to learn - to be part of the work of a family; to see that there are responsibilities that need to be met; to share in the rhythmic family life. And along the way, through the repetition of such work, the children develop all sorts of motor and social skills - all the things which conventional education can quantify and which so many people get stuck on! But it's all there! And of course, because of the age difference, you will find different tasks for your children to do (your tiny one is of course in a sling or similar most of the time, actively learning through her seemingly passive watching). But for the most part, because of the ages of your children, you work together.<br /><br />And then, as you seek to refine and deepen what you do, you can think about your family's spiritual life and relationship to the changing of the seasons. This then helps you choose what stories to tell, what songs to sing, what verses to work with. It helps you know that to celebrate festivals meaningfully with children, that certain crafts, activities and other gestures need to find their expression. All this enriches and deepend your family life.<br /><br />And all three children are included and you find how to do this because you have stopped thinking in terms of "now I have to do kindergarten with my two eldest and instead you are able to think about how you all live together - which necessitates things which can actually be called "kindergarten". Do you see the difference?<br /><br />Therein, I think, lies some of the secret of being a relaxed homeschooler! It all starts with you!<br /><br />Donna<br />www.christopherushomeschool.orgDonnahttp://www.christopherushomeschool.org/home.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-1978392332660414482011-10-21T07:17:00.699-04:002011-10-21T07:17:00.699-04:00Hi everyone!
Thanks Donna and Catherine for the op...Hi everyone!<br />Thanks Donna and Catherine for the opportunity to ask questions here.<br /><br />I wanted to ask Donna how she feels about the difference between FREE TO chose and FREE FROM choice. I get the feeling that Waldorf is on the freedom-from-choice side. Meaning that the adult has knowledge that the child doesn't.<br /><br />Here is, i guess, THE bottom question for me : Do you mean you know what the child needs from your experience as an experienced adult (eg, when it's cold, we're warm with a jacket on), from your deep connection to this particular child's soul and needs at this particular moment, from Steiner's or antroposofical views on child development?<br /><br />Does the 'plan' the adult has for the child come from knowledge about the spiritual path that awaits the child?<br />Or does the child also have some knowledge of HIS own path? <br /><br />Thank you!<br />IsabelleI.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01005680462964437870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8589290063273869746.post-53028907734422574642011-10-20T23:37:43.480-04:002011-10-20T23:37:43.480-04:00I just want to say to Donna that I love your answe...I just want to say to Donna that I love your answers and metaphors. They really speak to me!Sarahhttp://sarah-ourislandhome.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com